Not a problem in the least, Bill. I've never quite gotten to the point where I could say I'm an atheist, but I'm done forever with Christianity. I won't go into it here, and there are so many sweet people who will tell you they're praying for you and would never imagine not having their church in their lives, and I respect them. The reason I mentioned this is that philosophically, I gravitate to good people, and most of them never set foot in a church. However, Jews and Christians, in general, learned a lot about their ethical beliefs through religion. I can't speak for Muslims, but I do believe they also have fervent and nonviolent beliefs. I come from a super-rigid, shame-based religious culture. I never fit in. I always felt judged by the people & never heard a word from God. I was deeply immersed in the Christian Reformed church because it's Dutch and I'm Dutch and all my huge family is Dutch, so it was extremely important to demonstrate to others what good Dutch people were.
I probably have 40 ministers in my family, at least, and several missionaries. But I have a lot of problems with all that. When I was talking about sexism, I was coming straight from how I was raised, as a worthless girl child. Nobody counted but the men and boys. Nobody was allowed to ask uncomfortable questions about why we all felt like outsiders.
One day someone said something to me about my religion being founded by a mass murderer. They were talking about John Calvin, and guess what? He was! Anyone who didn't agree with him was burned at the stake, or beheaded or some other grisly public murder. That put me right off Calvinism forever.
And this is the general chat forum, so it's okay to talk religion here. I don't want to insult anyone else, but I find Buddhism makes the most sense when it comes to spirituality. I have extremely strong, negative opinions about Christianity, starting from wondering why I have to take the blame for what the Romans did to Christ because he died for me. I didn't ask him to. I never would ask anyone to. And it's a ridiculous premise. The person doing the dying is the one who needs a reality check.
But I'm a big fan of C.S. Lewis & because of my upbringing and excessive church going, I pretty much know the bible backward and forward. There are some great stories in there, but not meant to be taken literally. There is beautiful writing in the Psalms and a lot of sex in the Songs of Solomon. But the Jewish Bible, specifically, is unafraid to point out the flaws in people, like David, who had his best friend killed so he could have sex with his widow. I also learned a great deal about the devotion of women friends by reading the book of Ruth. And for a while, I studied to convert to Judaism, but found that I would always be a stranger there, and I felt like a stranger in my own faith already. So I checked the No Preference box and I live a life where I try to be kind, I never steal, I never physically hurt anyone, would never murder and when I did bad things like cheating with someone else's husband, I never justified it. I admitted it. I was wrong.
The lovely pastor with whom I spoke tonight heard all these things from me. He's not out to convert me, and he treated me like an equal as we discussed different points in religion. He assured me that in his work, he would never try to offer God as a fix, but that our human problems would have human solutions offered. And he's seeing us at no charge, which showed his character. I, of course, will show mine by making a generous donation to his church, even though he is moving on to another ministry in two months.
The development of conflict resolution in Brethren and Quaker traditions was intended to bring warring nations to the table, to help them find a way to get along. And I loved this unfathomable thing, where no brethren would kill a man, even if he was about to kill his children. They believe it's wrong to kill, even then, because by doing so, you are taking away that evil man's only chance to repent to god and receive salvation. They also have a custom of eating the Last Supper together in the dark, in bare feet, silently. And then each person kneels down and washes another person's feet, experiencing the humility in that. It's powerful. But even there, I never heard from God.
I don't know why I can't feel what others claim to feel, but I can't fake it. There have been a lot of people who have done wonderful things for me, in God's name or Just Because. My path is full of these people, and they are my religion.
I hope those of you who are happy in Christ will follow the Golden Rule here, as Christ would have. And remember First Corinthians 13 (KJV): "The greatest of these is [CHARITY, aka LOVE]."
gotta paste some of it in...
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. 12 For now we see through a glass, darkly, but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. 13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
Some of the most beautiful words and philosophies are contained in the Bible. But there's a huge difference between those and what people actually do so much of the time. And there are equally beautiful words in the Koran and the Talmud and let us not forget the brilliant Lebanese poet/philosopher Kahlil Gibran, who also wrote about love and god in The Prophet:
Love gives naught but itself and takes naught but from itself.
Love possesses not nor would it be possessed;
For love is sufficient unto love.
When you love you should not say, “God is in my heart,” but
rather, “I am in the heart of God.”
And think not you can direct the course of love, for love, if it finds you
worthy, directs your course.
Love has no other desire but to fulfil itself.
gimme that old time religion, Bill. Love is where you find it.
