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Counting Calories is Worthless, Unless is Isn't

WazzuCoug

WazzuCoug

Member
I'll say up front that if counting calories feels good and right for you, then it is good and right for you.

However, I've also seen people get so obsessed with calories that they seem to be on the verge of a stress bomb about it and are focusing a lot on how much they are eating instead of what they are eating. Not everyone, of course. If you find something that works for you, stick with it! But for people who stress out a bit too much about calories, I would suggest letting some of that go and switching to more concentration on food quality and finding the right foods for your biology.

Here are a few reasons why counting calories is mostly wasted time:

Food Labels:
  • Food labels are allowed by the FDA to be up to 20% off - higher or lower
  • Food companies manipulate the serving size to make it appear the calories/sugar/salt/fat are lower than what people would truly eat.
The only thing food labels are good for is comparing identical foods, for example comparing two brands of yogurt at the same serving size to evaluate their content. You SHOULD NOT compare two different 100 calorie foods. A 100 calorie pack of M&M does not equal an 100 calorie pack of whole almonds.

Calorie trackers and scanners just enter the same faulty calorie information that is on the labels, so they don't come with any amount of reliable accuracy.

Effective Food Calories:

Effective calories can vary depending on what form a food is. A serving of whole almonds might be 130 calories, but the same amount of almonds ground would actually be 180 calories because of the difference in their cellular structure after being ground up. That is a 50 calorie difference even though the amount of almonds used in each serving was the same. However, if the whole almonds and same amount of ground almonds were side by side in packages, they would be labeled with the exact same calories.

Two people can metabolize calories very differently. Taking almonds for example again. One person can metabolize that 130 calorie serving and only get 69 calories of energy, but the person next to her eating the same serving of almonds may metabolize the serving as 180 calories. That means one person is getting the equivalent of 777 extra calories of energy in a week. This can apply to any food. How each person metabolizes food is highly unique, which is why you'll often see me write that finding the right foods for yourself are more important than following a specific "named diet" or being religious about counting calories.

Yes, we do have to burn more calories than we take in to lose weight, but it’s not about counting the average calories, it is how you metabolize the calories. As a unit of measurement, a calorie is a calorie, but as food energy, a calorie is definitely not a calorie.

A study with identical twins for 100 days illustrated this difference calorie metabolism. 12 pairs of identical twins were put on identical diets and fed an extra 1000 calories/day for 6 days a week for 100 days. Their diets were closely monitored. The average weight gain was 8kg, BUT the difference between identical twins eating the exact same food show that in some cases one twin gained just 6 Kg, but their mirror image gained over 13kg - almost twice as much eating the same calories!! It wasn't genetics at play between the identical twins, it was their microbiome and how they metabolize the same foods.

Some people feel good about counting, and that’s great, but for others it can be stressful and unsustainable and have negative psychological impacts - fixation on numbers instead of food.

What should you do?
  • If calorie counting works for you, keep doing it
  • However, if it doesn't seem to work for you then: don’t count calories, focus on quality protein, plants and nourishment
  • Eat more plants and whole, minimally processed foods with an intact food matrix
  • Learn what works best for YOUR body and get your biology on your side
  • If you think you should be losing and you aren't, consider experimenting with your foods
  • No matter which diet you choose, the following core recommendations can apply to any diet (keto, paleo, other low carb, low fat, mediterranean, vegetarian (in all forms), vegan or other):
    • No ultra processed foods (10 ingredients or more)
    • Minimize other processed food & refined grains
    • A wide variety of plants (any form, veggies, herbs, spices, fungus, nuts, seeds, fruits, berries, etc)
    • No foods with added sugar
    • Avoid artificial sweeteners
Again, I am not bashing anyone to counts calories, because it does work for some people. I'm just sharing that it there's good reasons to focus on your food sources more than numbers, especially if you are having some weight loss issues.

A lot of people who count are also making good food choices, which again, is probably the real reason for success, not that fact that they are tracking calories, but that they are choosing the right foods for them. Someone else could be counting the exact same number of calories and not having much success because they might be eating the same calories of processed "healthy food" or even unhealthy foods, or they are just eating the wrong combination of foods their body doesn't metabolize well. They are both counting, but getting very different results.

This is all "food for thought" and nothing more. No need to change what you are doing, but some stuff to think about.
 
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Honestly, when asked how many calories I’m getting right now, I have no real clue. I know it’s not over 1,300, but sometimes can be as low as 600. However, I’m getting all my protein, hydration, and vitamins. I’ve been weight stable now for a few weeks, and I’m good where I’m at so I don’t feel the need to stress about it because I don’t think it’s a stall. I think my body’s done losing. I make 90/10 food choices. 90% of the time I’m eating all the good things for my body, 10% of the time I’m eating all the fun things for my brain LOL I feel like this is more sustainable for me, and it’s important, like you said Ryan, to do what works for you.
 
A very informative topic. I have never been a big calorie counter. I actually preferred kids meals for smaller portions and the toy of course. I really liked the presurgery food log. Three meals three milk snacks. It worked for me. I had place to write time of meal quantity of foods I even had a place to write if there was anything that happened that day with regard to food intake. I feel lost right now since I seem to only be able to eat 3-4 oz of food maximum at a time. Anything more just upsets the tummy. I have requested to work with a dietician locally to get my foods (proteins) up to requirements. It will get better. Mostly I am not hungry. I am forcing myself to eat when I do.
 
3momchaos said:
Honestly, when asked how many calories I’m getting right now, I have no real clue. I know it’s not over 1,300, but sometimes can be as low as 600. However, I’m getting all my protein, hydration, and vitamins. I’ve been weight stable now for a few weeks, and I’m good where I’m at so I don’t feel the need to stress about it because I don’t think it’s a stall. I think my body’s done losing. I make 90/10 food choices. 90% of the time I’m eating all the good things for my body, 10% of the time I’m eating all the fun things for my brain LOL I feel like this is more sustainable for me, and it’s important, like you said Ryan, to do what works for you.
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I'm with ya. I think finding the right combination of foods and having a sustainable practice is key. I believe my calories vary significantly day to day, but I try to make my food choices consistent. Like you, I'm pretty sure I'm settling into maintenance. My weight trend is still inching downward, but I'm not really thinking about weight loss as my goal right now. It's fine if it continues, but I'm putting my focus on ensuring long term success.

I also agree that including some foods for your brain is a good thing too, sometimes. We can still enjoy foods. :)
 
WazzuCoug said:
I'll say up front that if counting calories feels good and right for you, then it is good and right for you.

However, I've also seen people get so obsessed with calories that they seem to be on the verge of a stress bomb about it and are focusing a lot on how much they are eating instead of what they are eating. Not everyone, of course. If you find something that works for you, stick with it! But for people who stress out a bit too much about calories, I would suggest letting some of that go and switching to more concentration on food quality and finding the right foods for your biology.

Here are a few reasons why counting calories is mostly wasted time:

Food Labels:
  • Food labels are allowed by the FDA to be up to 20% off - higher or lower
  • Food companies manipulate the serving size to make it appear the calories/sugar/salt/fat are lower than what people would truly eat.
The only thing food labels are good for is comparing identical foods, for example comparing two brands of yogurt at the same serving size to evaluate their content. You SHOULD NOT compare two different 100 calorie foods. A 100 calorie pack of M&M does not equal an 100 calorie pack of whole almonds.

Calorie trackers and scanners just enter the same faulty calorie information that is on the labels, so they don't come with any amount of reliable accuracy.

Effective Food Calories:

Effective calories can vary depending on what form a food is. A serving of whole almonds might be 130 calories, but the same amount of almonds ground would actually be 180 calories because of the difference in their cellular structure after being ground up. That is a 50 calorie difference even though the amount of almonds used in each serving was the same. However, if the whole almonds and same amount of ground almonds were side by side in packages, they would be labeled with the exact same calories.

Two people can metabolize calories very differently. Taking almonds for example again. One person can metabolize that 130 calorie serving and only get 69 calories of energy, but the person next to her eating the same serving of almonds may metabolize the serving as 180 calories. That means one person is getting the equivalent of 777 extra calories of energy in a week. This can apply to any food. How each person metabolizes food is highly unique, which is why you'll often see me write that finding the right foods for yourself are more important than following a specific "named diet" or being religious about counting calories.

Yes, we do have to burn more calories than we take in to lose weight, but it’s not about counting the average calories, it is how you metabolize the calories. As a unit of measurement, a calorie is a calorie, but as food energy, a calorie is definitely not a calorie.

A study with identical twins for 100 days illustrated this difference calorie metabolism. 12 pairs of identical twins were put on identical diets and fed an extra 1000 calories/day for 6 days a week for 100 days. Their diets were closely monitored. The average weight gain was 8kg, BUT the difference between identical twins eating the exact same food show that in some cases one twin gained just 6 Kg, but their mirror image gained over 13kg - almost twice as much eating the same calories!! It wasn't genetics at play between the identical twins, it was their microbiome and how they metabolize the same foods.

Some people feel good about counting, and that’s great, but for others it can be stressful and unsustainable and have negative psychological impacts - fixation on numbers instead of food.

What should you do?
  • If calorie counting works for you, keep doing it
  • However, if it doesn't seem to work for you then: don’t count calories, focus on quality protein, plants and nourishment
  • Eat more plants and whole, minimally processed foods with an intact food matrix
  • Learn what works best for YOUR body and get your biology on your side
  • If you think you should be losing and you aren't, consider experimenting with your foods
  • No matter which diet you choose, the following core recommendations can apply to any diet (keto, paleo, other low carb, low fat, mediterranean, vegetarian (in all forms), vegan or other):
    • No ultra processed foods (10 ingredients or more)
    • Minimize other processed food & refined grains
    • A wide variety of plants (any form, veggies, herbs, spices, fungus, nuts, seeds, fruits, berries, etc)
    • No foods with added sugar
    • Avoid artificial sweeteners
Again, I am not bashing anyone to counts calories, because it does work for some people. I'm just sharing that it there's good reasons to focus on your food sources more than numbers, especially if you are having some weight loss issues.

A lot of people who count are also making good food choices, which again, is probably the real reason for success, not that fact that they are tracking calories, but that they are choosing the right foods for them. Someone else could be counting the exact same number of calories and not having much success because they might be eating the same calories of processed "healthy food" or even unhealthy foods, or they are just eating the wrong combination of foods their body doesn't metabolize well. They are both counting, but getting very different results.

This is all "food for thought" and nothing more. No need to change what you are doing, but some stuff to think about.
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Dear Sir,

I have to say that I often find your posts thought provoking, however dangerous. Everyone has the right share opinions, but what you are suggesting could actually harm someone, and are far from what bariatric centers promote. I would never encourage something like this without speaking to a nutritionist and a bariatric dr. And while you provide facts, you can find “facts and studies” to support any claim. I follow a Mediterranean diet for the most part, and am pescatarian. I also do not use protein powder as it made me ill. But I would never promote my lifestyle choices without saying my dr & my nutritionist are fully aware, and support me. Bariatric surgeons have close to 20 years of training, let’s not ignore that. I urge you to always tag your ideas with “check with your center first”. I know have good intentions but I am concerned with how you dispense your opinions.

Thank You for considering.
 
While I can see where you’re coming from, and Ryan can defend his statements on his own, I don’t see how they’re dangerous when he says that if counting calories works for you then keep doing it. He also never encourages anyone to change their ways, just shares interesting information that he’s found. It’s like sharing a recipe-no ones forcing you to make it, it’s just there if you’re interested. It’s up to each one of us to do what works best for us. Our surgery centers and doctors are not the same and don’t give the same information-nor do they recommend the same things. This is not a one size fits all process. None of us are alike, but I enjoy reading and learning about everyone’s journey and point of view, even if it’s not something I would follow.
 
Liddithepup said:
Dear Sir,

I have to say that I often find your posts thought provoking, however dangerous. Everyone has the right share opinions, but what you are suggesting could actually harm someone, and are far from what bariatric centers promote. I would never encourage something like this without speaking to a nutritionist and a bariatric dr. And while you provide facts, you can find “facts and studies” to support any claim. I follow a Mediterranean diet for the most part, and am pescatarian. I also do not use protein powder as it made me ill. But I would never promote my lifestyle choices without saying my dr & my nutritionist are fully aware, and support me. Bariatric surgeons have close to 20 years of training, let’s not ignore that. I urge you to always tag your ideas with “check with your center first”. I know have good intentions but I am concerned with how you dispense your opinions.

Thank You for considering.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, I'm not sure what you think I'm suggesting, other than people evaluate the food they are eating to make sure it's right for them and don't get obsessed with calories. I promote the idea that the food choices and our relationship with food is the most important part of long term success.

I often tell people to follow their program and consider options if it isn't working for them. You mentioned the Mediterranean diet, which is not promoted by every bariatric clinic, but nevertheless, it is awesome, one of the best diets out there, and if you've read my posts well enough you would see I encourage people to find the diet that works for them. I encourage everyone to follow their post surgery guidelines but after they start eating regular foods, if their diet isn't working for them, explore changes.

Bariatric clinics generally give people a single path to follow, and that doesn't work for everyone. I don't think I've ever implied that I think people should do "my way or the highway." I encourage people to find what works for them and create a relationship with food that will be sustainable for life so they can keep the weight off that they lose.

Unless they have taken a special interest or specialization in nutrition, doctors and surgeons get very little nutrition education no matter how long they've practicing or doing surgery. Twenty years of doing surgeries means nothing other than they are an experienced surgeon. It certainly doesn't mean they know anything about nutrition other than a semester course they took 20 years ago. If you are relying on your doctor for modern nutritional advice, it's probably the wrong source. Dieticians and nutritionists are somewhat better in that regard, but they can also get focused on a single diet or path for everyone, and that just doesn't work across the board.

We're all adults, I wouldn't do anything someone tells me to do on the internet without fact checking or checking in with my bariatric clinic, and for the record, my dietician, doctor, surgeon and physical therapist are 100% in support of the direction I've taken. It certainly doesn't mean my direction is what everyone else should take. Just like I said at the end of my post, it was food for thought.

Do what works for you and what you feel safe doing. That has been, and always will be, at the core of what I share.

In the end, we can only do what we feel safe doing, especially when it's on a random forum like this one.

If it feels dangerous to you, then I would continue to do what feels safe.
 
I want to explain why it is so important for me to have access to this site and the people who take the time to explain in their own words what works for them and, beyond that post information that might be relevant to others. The bariatric center I selected has been the worst overall medical experience in my life. When I was younger, I was naïve enough to think Doctors and other medical professionals were almost always right. I’m not here to bash the whole medical profession because there are a lot of great overworked mistreated people in the profession. However, for the first time in my 60 years on this planet I have a GP who actually listens and is not looking at the time after 15 minutes and, treating me like I’m an idiot. And, she is not condescending to me for being obese and treating me less than because I just don’t lose some weight and keep it off. My point is there are some arrogant uncaring medical professionals’ out there and if possible, I don’t go back.

When the bariatric center is inadequate in almost every way like mine is it was fantastic for me to find the site!! In the past I have never been someone who does social media and it was a stretch for me to even post on this site. But as someone who has fought obesity almost all my life and who often times feels ostracized by society especially when I lose weight and put it back on. I went to the bariatric center thinking there would be some compassion and understanding instead my anxiety increased. I don’t need to go into details about my whole experience but, my primary contact person the nutritionist is awful! She would email me these same PDF nutrition files that most of us who have tried to lose weight before have seen multiple times in our lives. To any of you who have been to a lecture where the presenter reads off the power point, they have an understanding of how awful this can be. The surgeon by all accounts is touted for being very good and that is my primary concern now.

In these times more than ever we have to find multiple sources of information and do our best to make informed decisions. Personally, I know some key points suggested to me by my bariatric center will not work for me. And, reading post from people who are actually living the experience of pre and post WLS has decreased my anxiety from a 7 down to a 2.

Once again, a giant shout out to all of you who take the time to share your experience strength and hope on your weight loss journey!!



Best,

James
 
A doctor who shares a lot of info similar to what I often write about is Dr. Matthew Weiner. He is 100% nutrition and food first as the long term solution. He's obviously really gotten into things like "set point," obesity's effect on hormones, the dangers of artificial sweeteners, etc. I suspect many of you have seen his videos. I would say there's very little that I've posted that is much different than his perspective. So, I guess if you want to only listen to doctors for your nutritional advice, I'd recommend him: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4qN8k1ix0DoCLM6VhDvz8w

This is a personal journey we are all sharing in a public space. I share what I learn, experience and suggest that other people find their own path. For the love of God, don't do anything without doing your own research, and don't do anything just because a someone on the internet or a doctor told you do to it either. Doctors, dieticians and nutritionists are just as inescapably fallible as the next person. They have bias, blinds spots, agendas and are as imperfect as me or anyone else.

There are tons of research studies out there that are not sponsored by corporations with vested interests and that just report facts without cherry picking data. I try to use those as my sources as much as possible. That being said, knowledge and information changes over time. We learn more and adjust accordingly.

The real test for me now is whether what I believe to be true holds up over the next several years. I'm in maintenance mode and transitioning to more fitness program instead of weight loss. Who knows, everything I believe may be completely wrong, but I plan to adjust as necessary to keep what I've achieved. Time will tell.
 
I agree with Ryan's suggestion about Dr. Matthew Weiner. I've watched lots of his videos, sometimes am shocked by what he is saying only because I wish I watched these before surgery. Lots of great information. Ryan, have you read his book,
"A Pound of Cure: Change Your Eating and Your Life, One Step at a Time"?
 
JudyNY said:
I agree with Ryan's suggestion about Dr. Matthew Weiner. I've watched lots of his videos, sometimes am shocked by what he is saying only because I wish I watched these before surgery. Lots of great information. Ryan, have you read his book,
"A Pound of Cure: Change Your Eating and Your Life, One Step at a Time"?
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I have not read the book. He's shared a lot of the ideas and recommendations from his book in his videos of the past several years, so I think I have a reasonable understanding of what he suggests. He's one of those rare surgeons who take a deep dive outside of the the process and procedure of the surgery itself and into nutrition and a focus on food. Much of what he's covered in his videos for years is being validated by recent nutritional studies.
 
Wow. Ok this time I am going to come in and defend Ryan and if you don’t like what I have to say PLEASE put me on ignore. Ryan has done nothing but shared the information he’s found and shared it with others going through the journey of weight loss surgery. He has never pressured or tried to persuade anyone of anything. He’s been supportive, caring, and uplifting. He’s stumbled and struggled during his journey like the majority of us have. He hasn’t misled or lied or made his path seem easy. He needed bariatric surgery for the same reason as most of us. He’s done mountains of research because of his YouTube channel which he does to track HIS journey.
This forum is a support system for those who have none or have none who’ve been through this. I have a wonderful support system at home, but the only people I know who’ve had WLS aren’t close enough to ask questions or are hiding their surgery from people so they don’t talk about it. This place has given me the opportunity to talk with other people, share experiences, struggles, and victories and I wouldn’t have had that opportunity without this place. I completely understand not sharing ideals or disagreeing, but to be flat out rude to someone who has not done anything to deserve it is not ok.
3864
 
My only objection to your words is that some people do not fact check and you seem to have a good knowledge base. As a registered nurse who has researched nutrition long before I was a nurse, my only request is that you either include your degrees or state that you are a layman. Not every path is right for all (I think we agree with each other on this).
 
Liddithepup said:
My only objection to your words is that some people do not fact check and you seem to have a good knowledge base. As a registered nurse who has researched nutrition long before I was a nurse, my only request is that you either include your degrees or state that you are a layman. Not every path is right for all (I think we agree with each other on this).
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I do beleive he has stated many times its all just based on his personal experience and research. Everybody here is an adult and we can either take something that is said and research it for ourselves to see if it would be helpful or we can take it with a grain of salt....I ha e done both. Nobody on this board should take anything on this board as gospel.
 
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